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Post by spreadeagle7 on Mar 1, 2020 11:25:26 GMT -5
All I know is that NW region has a 12 man tourney with 4 advancing,and We have the same amount of schools, SW has a 16 man field and the SE has a 14 man field, lets bring more kids , whats wrong with another week of wrestling for some good kids who may of had a bad week or was ill Honesty I believe what would be even better would be just running a two day “super regional” where we eliminate regionals weekend completely giving the wrestlers more time to practice before Hershey and recover.
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d4man
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Post by d4man on Mar 1, 2020 12:20:10 GMT -5
The only way D4 should send 6 is if the sectionals were eliminated and there was a big district tournament.
My reasoning for this is simple. The postseason is a series of elimination tournaments so "the best" representatives qualify to the state tournament. It is also designed to get wrestlers ready.
I've always thought districts usually proved who the best wrestlers were but regionals proves who is the best coached wrestler.
It can happen and usually does every year where a district champ doesn't go on but is more common with district 3rd's and 4th's.
Think about it. Chances are any two D4 wrestlers have faced each other during the regular season, sometimes more than once.
Then again at sectionals, then again at districts, then again at regionals.
Any of us who have wrestled, knows how hard it is to beat the same guy over and over again. How many times do we give a lesser wrestler a chance against a better wrestler?
Like I said... first eliminate sectionals and go to a big district tournament.
Allow D2 to still send 3 and our 6th and their 3rd wrestle a pigtail. Loser is done.
It wouldn't hurt the lack of attendance at regionals either.
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Post by pawrestlin92 on Mar 1, 2020 23:06:32 GMT -5
The regional tournament being an eight man bracket is essentially a one day tournament. Make it a twelve man bracket and make it more sensible for a two day tournament. Should take four from D2 and eight from D4.
I saw previously someone spoke about D2's 3rd rarely making it to Hershey, the kid from Hanover Rowley did it last year but I think he was 0-2 this year. Also, someone said that the Trail kid that got out did so beating Heckman as a Freshman, the Trail kid is a Freshman too and when I looked back it looked like he avenged a loss to Heckman earlier this year. That goes to the above poster, it is hard for good wrestlers to beat another good wrestler time after time.
Also, if expanded to 12 (4 D2, 8 D4) it takes it from being 37.5% D2 to 33% D2 makeup in the tournament. Both sides win, D2 gets an extra kid in that likely won't win very often, but D4 gets in 3 more to get a shot.
Alsp if 8 went, doing away with sectional tournaments could be more realistic. Only 5 going makes it hard, a bad spot in the bracket can leave you out, but if you can't crack the top 8 then tough.
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Post by backpoints on Mar 2, 2020 8:16:54 GMT -5
The more I hear from D4 tournament guys is they are looking at doing 4 from the 3 sections, 4 from D2 and doing 1 tournament the week of Districts. This would actually be a regional tournament. Sections-Regions-States. With a week in between regions and states. Again it would be a 16 man 2 day event, not in Williamsport. I believe it would need 4 mats to run it.
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Post by pawrestlin92 on Mar 2, 2020 10:29:32 GMT -5
D2 has their AA and AAA in the same building on the same weekend, not sure the week of districts would happen. But maybe the week of regionals and D4 runs sections the same time and gets an extra week between or does it the week of districts.
You would think a larger tournament than 8 man brackets would be all around beneficial, more competitors also equates to more money at the door and at the concession stand.
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Post by bigunit on Mar 2, 2020 10:39:00 GMT -5
Here is something to think about. Get rid of sectionals and have one big district tournament with no wrestle-backs for first and second-round losers. It makes no sense having the same kids beating each other up for 3 weeks in a row and going to states injured.
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d4man
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Post by d4man on Mar 2, 2020 13:36:56 GMT -5
Another thing I forgot in my previous post. Some people argue about eliminating two weight classes because it limits opportunities for kids to wrestle.
The same applies with eliminating the D2 3rd placer. D2 is losing programs and we cannot allow that to happen. D2 eliminates a few more or co-ops a few more and the same happens to D4 (which can happen) and it could put us in danger of losing our 4th qualifier to states.
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Post by tespobr119 on Mar 2, 2020 21:39:36 GMT -5
So I did a little research here are a few... 2019 Joe Rowley HA 3rd district 2 SQ 120lbs. 2017 Bob Long LL 3rd district 2 SQ 120lbs. 2012 Joseph Ingaglio WW 3rd district 2 SQ 285lbs. 2006 Brandon Dixon LT 3rd district 2 SQ 145lbs. 2002 Wally Geiger MY 3rd district 2 SQ 103lbs. 2002 Ed Becker LL 3rd district 2 SQ 189lbs. I know the 3rd place guy usually gets beat out, but he only lost 1 time at his district tournament. The 6th placer had 3 chances to punch his ticket to regionals. Tougher wrestling yes, he could always transfer that's what everyone else seems to be doing...
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Post by Mitch_Rupert on Mar 2, 2020 23:12:23 GMT -5
Here is something to think about. Get rid of sectionals and have one big district tournament with no wrestle-backs for first and second-round losers. It makes no sense having the same kids beating each other up for 3 weeks in a row and going to states injured. I know this is an idea the people in charge have floated. But there would be no wrestlebacks for first round losers. Then you have a 16-man bracket with full wrestlebacks. They seem to think that's something they could do with three mats at Williamsport if they go all day Friday and Saturday. From what I've heard, too, sounds like District 2 coaches would be in favor of having a week off between regionals and states. So there may be some wiggle room to getting them to move their AA district tournament ahead a week. But that's all speculation at this point.
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Post by thereaper on Mar 3, 2020 6:54:29 GMT -5
So I did a little research here are a few... 2019 Joe Rowley HA 3rd district 2 SQ 120lbs. 2017 Bob Long LL 3rd district 2 SQ 120lbs. 2012 Joseph Ingaglio WW 3rd district 2 SQ 285lbs. 2006 Brandon Dixon LT 3rd district 2 SQ 145lbs. 2002 Wally Geiger MY 3rd district 2 SQ 103lbs. 2002 Ed Becker LL 3rd district 2 SQ 189lbs. I know the 3rd place guy usually gets beat out, but he only lost 1 time at his district tournament. The 6th placer had 3 chances to punch his ticket to regionals. Tougher wrestling yes, he could always transfer that's what everyone else seems to be doing... You do realize that in 18 years only 6 D2 3rd placers getting to states is really bad. You are proving the point of everyone who says D2 should only bring the top 2 placers to regionals.
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d4man
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Post by d4man on Mar 3, 2020 10:34:55 GMT -5
So I did a little research here are a few... 2019 Joe Rowley HA 3rd district 2 SQ 120lbs. 2017 Bob Long LL 3rd district 2 SQ 120lbs. 2012 Joseph Ingaglio WW 3rd district 2 SQ 285lbs. 2006 Brandon Dixon LT 3rd district 2 SQ 145lbs. 2002 Wally Geiger MY 3rd district 2 SQ 103lbs. 2002 Ed Becker LL 3rd district 2 SQ 189lbs. I know the 3rd place guy usually gets beat out, but he only lost 1 time at his district tournament. The 6th placer had 3 chances to punch his ticket to regionals. Tougher wrestling yes, he could always transfer that's what everyone else seems to be doing... You do realize that in 18 years only 6 D2 3rd placers getting to states is really bad. You are proving the point of everyone who says D2 should only bring the top 2 placers to regionals. What are your thoughts on reducing the weight classes? What if there is a good D2 wrestler that was hurt most the season and only has 10 matches under his belt and he is the 4th seed at his district tournament?
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Post by thereaper on Mar 3, 2020 10:54:52 GMT -5
You do realize that in 18 years only 6 D2 3rd placers getting to states is really bad. You are proving the point of everyone who says D2 should only bring the top 2 placers to regionals. What are your thoughts on reducing the weight classes? What if there is a good D2 wrestler that was hurt most the season and only has 10 matches under his belt and he is the 4th seed at his district tournament? I don’t support elimination of any weight classes, but back to your hypothetical The goal is to get the best guys to states. I would bet a lot more D4 district 6 placers over the last 18 years were eliminated at Districts who were more than capable off beating most of the D2 guys at their weight including the champions than the 6 district 2 3rd placers who made it to states in the last 18 years.
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Post by D4wrestling on Mar 3, 2020 11:16:49 GMT -5
I don't mind the idea of reducing weight classes if they change the weights they proposed or allow us to send more to states. Have a 24 man state bracket then.
I'm going to go on the assumption that no weight classes are being dropped.
The only change I would like to see is this. Regionals D4 champ is top seeded, then our D4 2nd and D4 3rd are on the bottom bracket. D2 champ is top seeded, then seeding is done like this year.
I have no issue with 8 man regional bracket. Every regional has a district that probably doesn't deserve the amount of qualifiers they get.
D4 almost every year has the most state placewinners, so something is working. I would just separate our champ from our 2nd/3rd.
I think in every scenario going to 3 weekends or 2 weekends you will find examples that would benefit or hurt because of it
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d4man
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Post by d4man on Mar 3, 2020 16:41:18 GMT -5
I don't mind the idea of reducing weight classes if they change the weights they proposed or allow us to send more to states. Have a 24 man state bracket then. I'm going to go on the assumption that no weight classes are being dropped. The only change I would like to see is this. Regionals D4 champ is top seeded, then our D4 2nd and D4 3rd are on the bottom bracket. D2 champ is top seeded, then seeding is done like this year. I have no issue with 8 man regional bracket. Every regional has a district that probably doesn't deserve the amount of qualifiers they get. D4 almost every year has the most state placewinners, so something is working. I would just separate our champ from our 2nd/3rd. I think in every scenario going to 3 weekends or 2 weekends you will find examples that would benefit or hurt because of it But not allowing D2 3rd placers would hurt District 2 wrestling no? We cannot have D2 lose any more programs OR WE LOSE OUR 4TH QUALIFER.
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Post by blackpantherfan on Mar 3, 2020 16:55:23 GMT -5
I don't mind the idea of reducing weight classes if they change the weights they proposed or allow us to send more to states. Have a 24 man state bracket then. I'm going to go on the assumption that no weight classes are being dropped. The only change I would like to see is this. Regionals D4 champ is top seeded, then our D4 2nd and D4 3rd are on the bottom bracket. D2 champ is top seeded, then seeding is done like this year. I have no issue with 8 man regional bracket. Every regional has a district that probably doesn't deserve the amount of qualifiers they get. D4 almost every year has the most state placewinners, so something is working. I would just separate our champ from our 2nd/3rd. I think in every scenario going to 3 weekends or 2 weekends you will find examples that would benefit or hurt because of it Lets be honest we have the easiest route to States, with only having to deal with D2, We get to send 48 out of 56 Wrestlers to states, so we should have the most, still doesnt mean we dont need to change how many kids go to Regionals, D2 gets an extra kid to Regionals and we get 3, if you extend to a 12 man bracket, If we keep it at an 8 man bracket, why Friday night then, we have more then that at Sectionals, and we run that in one day, not even starting til 10
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